Dearest Rick & Harvey
As I look into the cabin of my Baba and see the Garmin76 handheld, compasses /charts and AutoHelm 3000 and quartz chronometer; I am grateful to your thread on the marine techno workshop. You just saved me a lot time and money at West Marine and Circuit city. Appreciated the two bible overboard rescue concept.
 Radar is still a serious consideration in these inland cruising areas in spring and late summer. The next investment consideration is the personal overboard EPRIB.
Until I up grade my VHF, location of crew rather than boat would require only one bible in the life boat.
Most sincerely
Pam Hooper
Bellingham, Wa
Pamarno, 30Baba, 80'

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Harvey J. Karten" <hjkarten@ucsd.edu>

> Hi Rick,
> Underneath your protests, I suspect that we are in agreement.
> Having spent 90% of my waking time over the past 20 years staring at
> computer screens, tracking bugs, doing complex graphics, and all the junk
> that bores most sensible human beings, I simply don't trust general purpose
> computers for mission sensitive operations.
>
> When something goes wrong with computers using contemporary operating
> systems, I need an internet connection to try to track down even the
> simplest of problems. The days when I could solve problems by
> reinstalling DOS from a single floppy drive, or writing a simple fortran
> program or an assembly language routine to solve some problem, are long
> gone. Or consider what you would have to do to reinstall and reactivate
> your copy of Microsoft's Vista Operating System. They have a painfully
> complex protection system (WGA) that requires access to the internet, phone
> calls, pleading, begging and crying, in order to reinstall your legally
> purchased copy. I only mention this to emphasize that fixing software
> problems in the stressful moments of cruising is damned near impossible. My
> wife still is amazed that when she confronts me with a problem on her
> computer, that after 10 minutes of trying various (usually fruitless)
> strategies to solve the problem, that I haven't tossed it through the
> window. But after about 30 minutes, I can usually work it out for her - but
> only about 50% of the time and thanks to internet access. I don't have the
> time or patience or willingness to risk my life and boat on that sort of
> unreliable device.
>
> In comparison, a modern chartplotter is as solid as a rock. Far from
> perfect, and I worry about reliability of GPS, EM overload from nearby
> military radar, etc.
> So, I carry both a chartplotter (actually two of them) and a laptop (often
> two of them). I also carry paper charts, a minimum of three compasses
> (oops, make that 4), two VHF (OK, three), and all the rest of the crap that
> we call safety gear. That's my obligation to my crew/passengers -
> especially if I am single handing!
>
> My major point is that the laptop is flexible, can do many tasks, including
> charting, planning, email, collecting digital photos, etc. But if you end
> up using your laptop in some convenient Internet Cafe, the probability of
> picking an STD (Software Transmitted Disease) is very high. Your
> chartplotter is reasonably protected from that, simply because it is
> isolated from viruses, worms, trojan horses, etc. Of course the
> Chartplotter is a computer with an operating system, software, etc. But it
> has the equivalent of a nearly impregnable firewall. The O/S is written in
> firmware, so the probability of corrupting the O/S is close to zero. Hard
> drives tend to lose bits in the most inconvenient of *.dll's, resulting in
> serious crashes. The reason we have backups and backups of our backups is
> that hard disks die with great frequency. Those little drives in the laptop
> are particularly vulnerable. They are not really designed to withstand
> being dropped any distance. It's a tribute to the manufacturers that they
> don't fail even more often.
> The "ruggedized laptops" are quite expensive, and come in different degrees
> of ruggedness. The hard drives are protected (more or less) by having a
> small accelerometer that tries to park the heads before the computer hits
> the floor. Some manufacturers mount the hard drives in a gel matrix for
> cushioning. It's a bit like adding two bibles to the survival kit for your
> life raft, just in case the first doesn't result in rescue.
> If you want one with a daylight visible screen, it will cost big bucks, and
> usually only comes in small sizes and limited resolution. In order to make
> the ruggedized units waterproof, the manufacturers had to use CPUs with
> lower heat output, so they often have much slower, older generation CPUs.
>
> But --- as I said, I suggest that you have both a laptop (or three) and a
> chartplotter (or two).
> regards,
> Harvey
>
>
>
> At 02:40 PM 3/1/2007 -0500, you wrote:
> >Harvey J. Karten wrote:
> >>[...]
> >>Obviously it would be best if radar, AIS, GPS, etc., were all integrated
> >>into a single unit, such as the laptop software. But a laptop still has
> >>the terrible vulnerability of having a device that is not really meant
> >>for a small boat.
> >>1) It is not waterproof or even corrosion protected,
> >True although ruggedized laptops are available as are PC's that can be
> >mounted out of harm's way. One learns to cope.
> >After several years of laptops on OWTW, the only direct soaking any of our
> >laptops took was a direct hit from spilled orange juice while at home.
> >>2) hard drives with very poor MTBF (mean time between failures, meaning
> >>that the probability of failure is very high in the marine situation), and
> >??? Hard drives don't take well to being smacked around a lot while
> >running but HDD failure hasn't been an issue on OWTW. FWIW, one of the
> >desktop boxes here runs 24/7 without interruption (battery backup) and has
> >been for 60 days since the last reboot and was getting on to close to 180
> >days before that (the reboot was necessitated by a security update, not
> >hardware issues).
> >>3) you are relying on a pissing contest for Operating System reliability
> >>between Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. (Yes, you can now run Windows O/S in
> >>native format on any new Mac - as well as the latest version of the Mac
> >>OS-X Leopard).
> >Equally true on shore. The system (WinXP SP2) I'm writing on at the
> >moment has been up for the last 3 1/2 days without a reboot. When we did
> >the trip from Cape May NJ to Block Island (about 35 hours running time)
> >the system was up and running non-stop. Without trying to go close to the
> >Mac vs. Windows fight (much of which is really just name-calling),
> >personal computers, properly set up, work just fine for extended periods,
> >regardless of the OS. OTOH, I've found my no-frills cell phone needs to
> >be rebooted almost daily.
> >>4) Laptops consume a lot more power than I like - something in excess of
> >>60 to 80 watts, rely on use of an inverter or DC to DC converter, since
> >>none of them can run at 12 Volts. Figure that they use about 6 Amps per
> >>hour at 12 Volts. That is equal to 144 AMPS out of your batteries every
> >>24 hours. That's even more than your refrigerator.
> >My current HP laptop uses a direct 12 volt power supply. IGo makes
> >similar units for other laptops. 60 watts at 12 volts works out 5 amps,
> >not too far off the same draw from an active radar or from running lights.
> >>5) Access: Then there is the bigger issue that since the laptop is
> >>usually down at the nav station, and you need info from the computer, you
> >>leave the cockpit "for just a second". But the second turns into many
> >>minutes, with nobody on lookout.
> >As suggested earlier, ruggedized remote displays with touch screens are
> >available. Going below without leaving suitable watch topside is simply
> >poor ship management whether the task is "consulting the voodoo box" or
> >raiding the galley for a snack.
> >>6) If you set your computer to go to sleep if unused for 10 minutes in
> >>order to save power, there is always the delay before it comes back on -
> >>and the all too common experience that it decided to shut down, not just
> >>sleep, requiring a reboot - if you don't set all the options correctly.
> >>In addition, it now has to remind itself to query the GPS to get the
> >>Lat/Long, which kills another frustrating minute or two.
> >So? Disable sleep mode. As the old vaudeville routine goes: "Doc!
> >Doc! It hurts when I do *this*!" "Don't do *that*."
> >>7) And one of the things that annoys me more than almost anything else,
> >>is that the damned *&@# software is often copy protected. If your
> >>computer has a crash, reinstalling all that stuff can takes hours, and
> >>the copy protection scheme often makes it difficult to carry a complete
> >>backup on a second laptop (a very expensive, labor intensive solution).
> >Good luck with sharing anything in a dedicated chart plotter. By
> >contrast, I've moved CE from one machine to another (during upgrades)
> >without a problem and I get all my raster and vector charts directly from
> >NOAA at the cost of having an Internet connection. CE installation takes
> >under 10 minutes and the same is true for each chart package (raster and
> >vector each).
> >>
> >>In comparison,
> >>1) your chartplotter is nearly completely waterproof and intended for use
> >>in the cockpit.
> >Agreed.
> >>2) It uses memory cards, which are generally far more reliable than any
> >>hard drive.
> >Agreed there are fewer mechanical parts (housing and plug vs. motors and
> >actuators and housing and plugs) however experience shows the MTBF is high
> >enough to make this less of a problem. The real problem is that if an HDD
> >tanks, replacing it is a skilled job in most cases.
> >>3) The unit is designed for limited numbers of operations, thus reducing
> >>the complexity of the device and increasing the reliability of the unit.
> >>Chartplotters are also subject to failure, but much less so than laptops.
> >No. Chart plotters are rarely single task machines but only computers
> >with a single program (and even that's questionable in some places). In
> >fact, there are far more computers of near-PC horsepower around in things
> >people wouldn't think of as "PC's" or "computers".
> >>4) It uses something under 0.6 amps or 14.4 amps per 24 hours. The AIS
> >>uses even less. The next big consumer of electricity for navigation is
> >>the Radar (not sure of the numbers, but I think it uses about 1-3 amps in
> >>standby mode, and much higher in transmit mode.
> >Raymarine quotes 20 watts for the E80 chart plotter alone. The E120 is
> >quoted at 30 watts. The difference is in the screen size (8" and 12"
> >respectively) and particularly the backlight for the screens. By
> >comaprison, a laptop display is typically 15" or 17" (widescreen
> >format). The AIS will be present for both the laptop and chart plotter -
> >non-issue.
> >>5) Access is immediate and right at the steering station. Contemporary
> >>units even allow you to have a second unit down below linked to the main
> >>unit. Either one can be designated as Master vs. Slave. Because it is
> >>designed to operate in the cockpit, the modern color screens have
> >>excellent visibility even in bright sunlight.
> >Or have a repeater in the cockpit with the main unit below. Six of one,
> >half dozen of the other.
> >>6) It does not go to "sleep", with all those associated problems.
> >"Don't do *that*."
> >>
> >>When we are in cruising mode, and the motor is running, then I run the
> >>laptop down below, and leave and set the Power Meter to be constantly on.
> >>The reality of laptops for navigation is that it's a great idea if your
> >>laptop is in the pilothouse of your trawler, secured at the inside
> >>steering station, and constantly running with power from your twin 350 HP
> >>Cummins diesels. It sits in the shade, so the fact that it isn't truly
> >>daylight visible in sunshine isn't a problem.
> >We simply don't have that problem on OWTW. With any boat there is a
> >finite energy budget, whether the consumption comes from a computer, chart
> >plotter, or margarita maker. Before heading away from the shore cord, it
> >pays to be sure the budget's been worked out. Or plan on re-joining the
> >age of sail when the batteries say "¡no mas!"
> >>
> >>The computer solution is excellent for viewing your overall course,
> >>planning major changes in course that benefits from seeing a larger
> >>screen, etc. It is superb when planning the next major course change or
> >>the day's cruise. But it is ergonomically a bad choice for moment to
> >>moment piloting. It is very difficult to multitask when staring at a
> >>laptop in the isolation at the nav station. A chartplotter does a much
> >>better job, and even that carries the risk of "instrument hypnosis" -
> >>staring at the screen as your boat is heading for a clearly visible
> >>hazard. Recently when suddenly enshrouded in fog in a white-out, I could
> >>view our position on the cockpit chartplotter (though I also immediately
> >>turned on the radar, which is also rigged to be easily visible from the
> helm.).
> >It doesn't much matter what the display is or where it is, target fixation
> >is a bad thing. But that's not the fault of the display, it's the user's
> >problem for failing to keep his or her head up and on a swivel.
> >>
> >>I have cruised with friends who are so computer focussed, that when he
> >>(the skipper) goes below to check something on the computer, like a
> >>magnetic robot, he decides to also check on his latest EMail, forgetting
> >>that he was originally worried about some navigation hazard. His wife
> >>often has to remind him that she still doesn't know the course and next
> >>waypoint distance.
> >That's just poor seamanship (and manners), not the fault of the computer
> >or chart plotter. Someone needs to join E-mail-aholics Anonymous...
> >>
> >>Solution: go with both a laptop and modern chartplotter.
> >Chart plotters offer a one-stop shopping solution to chart display,
> >navigation display, and boat management; there's a lot to be said for
> >that. They are, however, a single purpose device and are not open to user
> >adaptation to specific needs. Moreover, they will, as mentioned above,
> >not do well when it comes time to hit an Internet cafe for e-mail or to do
> >chart updates or do all the other things PC's can do. When one can afford
> >both a fixed purpose device and PC, life is good. Some, however, choose
> >to spend the cost of that second device on other things. PC's certainly
> >have their drawbacks and complications, however it's simply incorrect to
> >suggest they won't perform the same tasks as a chart plotter with the same
> >degree of reliability. But many people may not have the skill or care to
> >invest in having that skill applied, by a third party, to a PC. You pay
> >your money, you take your choice... [grin]
> >Cheers,
> >Rick Emerson
> >
> >
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>
> Harvey J. Karten, M.D.
> Distinguished Professor, UCSD
> Dept. of Neurosciences
> Basis Sciences Building, Rm. 3003/3009
> La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
> (858) 534-4938
> (858) 534-6602 - fax
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Thu Mar 8 12:26:48 2007