Hi Rick,
Many thanks for the corrections.
I then went to Carl's Sail Calculator, and entered the corrected data, and generated the numbers. These are listed as "Baba 30-2". I compared that to the numbers that he erroneously listed as Baba30. The results do differ slightly, with an increase of Motion Comfort (31.7 up to 33.04), increased Displacement/LWL ratio (364 revised upwards to 375), Capsize Ratio (1.8 down to 1.77), SA/D reduced (15.39 to 14.97), Hull Speed increased from 6.6 to 6.65.
The table is shown below.
The differences are relatively minor, but you should contact Carl and have him correct the data. This does not alter the basic fact that the Baba 30 is a gem of a boat, lovely to look at and wonderfully reliable to sail. I certainly meant no offense. The major point was that these boats are all quite similar, and differ markedly from a J-Boat, Catalina, Hunter, or many other respectable boats, equally loved by their owners.
regards, Harvey
  Performance Comparison LOA Baba 30 28.52
     
      Baba30-2 29.75
     
      LWL Baba 30 24.26
     
      Baba30-2 24.6
     
      Beam Baba 30 10.2
     
      Baba30-2 10.25
     
      Displacement Baba 30 11641
     
      Baba30-2 12500
     
      Sail Area Baba 30 494
     
      Baba30-2 504
     
      Capsize Ratio Baba 30 1.8
     
      Baba30-2 1.77
     
      Hull Speed Baba 30 6.6
     
      Baba30-2 6.65
     
      Sail Area to Displacement Baba 30 15.39
     
      Baba30-2 14.97
     
      Displacement to LWL Baba 30 364
     
      Baba30-2 375
     
      LWL to Beam Baba 30 2.38
     
      Baba30-2 2.4
     
      Motion Comfort Baba 30 31.7
     
      Baba30-2 33.04
     
      Pounds/Inch Baba 30 884
     
      Baba30-2 901
     

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rick
  To: baba-l@ballreich.net
  Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [Baba-L] Baba/Panda/Tashiba and Tayana

  Hi Harvey. I would not put much faith in Carl's Sail Calculator. I'm not sure of the other vessels listed at this site, but the Baba 30 is very much off. The site lists the LOA @ 28.52 actual 29.75, LWL lists 24.26 actual 24.60 Beam lists as 10.20 actual is 10.25, displacement @ 11,641 actual being 12,500, and sail area of 494 sq.' @ 100% actual 504 sq.' @100%. This kills the D/LWL, SA/D, Hull speed, Comfort Motion and Capsize Screen. The Baba 30 performance is actually better than this site gives it credit for. I don't recommend anyone using this site to make performance comparisons.
  Fair winds, Blue water
  Rick Williams
  S/V Lorac; Baba 30 #71
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Harvey J. Karten
    To: baba-l@ballreich.net
    Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:42 PM
    Subject: [Baba-L] Baba/Panda/Tashiba and Tayana

    Hi Pam,
    At risk of inflaming some owners, it might be worth quoting some of the history of the Valiants, Babas and Tayanas.

    Bob Perry apparently designed the Valiant prior to his drawing the Tayana 37 or the Baba 30, 35 or 40. The Tayana 37 was initially commissioned by the CT company, but they chose to concentrate on building the CT41. The people at Ta Yang acquired the plans from CT, and have been the only company that has ever built this boat. However, for the first few years that it was being sold, they marketed it as a CT-37, since the CT line had already established a reputation in the Western Hemisphere. As their sales increased, they marketed it under the name TaYana (from Ta-Yang, perhaps). But the boat has always been made in only a single yard from a single set of molds. The fundamental lines of the hull of the Tayana 37, Baba 30 and Baba 35 are scaled versions of what seems to be the identical hull lines. Perry has stated, however, that the Baba/Panda/Tashiba 40 has a different and faster underwater profile. Comments from visitors to Khaoshiung, Taiwan, apparently noted that many of the same joinery people work in both the Ta-Shing and Ta-Yang yards.

    Both yards are noted for excellence of construction, though the Ta-Shing seems to have a bit better joinery, and finish. The design of the chainplates on the Baba series have the apparent advantage that it is easier to remove and replace the chainplates. However, both yards used similar quality material in their chainplates, and owners of both series of boats should carefully check and replace the chainplates and bolts. Another serious deficiency shared by both series of boats is the marginal quality of the planking used in the bowsprit. Both Baba and Tayana boats often have rot in their bowsprit. The bowsprit of the Tayana 37 is a bit longer, proportionately, than on the Baba series. This gives it the slightly higher SA/D ratio, carrying a larger Yankee/Genoa. The cockpit on the Baba series is bit more secure and snug than the early models of Tayana. The water and fuel tanks are a problem on both series of boats.

    The Capsize ratio of these four boats is nearly identical. The Motion Comfort Index of the Tayana 37, Baba 35 and Tashiba/Panda/Baba 40 is also about equal. The Baba 30 has about 25% less motion comfort index than the others. The D/L is pretty similar on all four.
    For details on the numbers, see Carl's Sail Calculator at: http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html
    Perry obviously drew only slightly different minor features on most aspects of these different boats.

    The Tayana 37 has somewhat higher SA/D ratio, but this is easily equalized by a visit to your sailmaker. Hull speed is pretty closely matched, varying only slightly as a function of LWL.
    Displacement is evenly spread out in keeping with different lengths of the Baba 35, Tayana 37 and Tashiba 40.

    The Tashiba/Panda 40 is blessed with a more spacious interior, somewhat better quality ports, and slightly wider decks for better footing. Interior layout is more comfortable, and the finishing work lovely.

    Both series of boats are blessed with proud and dedicated owners. When you see them sailing, it is quite easy to mix them up, unless you are a devoted student of the subtle differences. (Assuming you ignore the insignia on the mainsail). It seems to take a "mother's eye" to spot the differences.

    The Valiant, of course, has only been constructed in the U.S., though by two different companies and at different locations. Despite the similarities of the Valiant to the Baba and Tayana lines, there are some very marked differences between the Valiants and the other Perry double enders of this vintage. The Valiant is characterized by a large Brewer Bite between the keel and the skeg bearing rudder. The Valiant has more bustle in the stern, and thus more buoyancy. But it is said to have a finer entry, resulting is some tendency to pound in chop. The Valiant has a significantly lower D/L ratio than the Tayana 37 or the Baba 30, 35 or 40. The Valiant 40 established the concept of the "Racer/Cruiser" and is one of Perry's most notable and popular of designs.

    Perry's designs keep company with Crealock, Rhodes, Alberg, Gillmer, Mason, and Brewer as solid, lovely, highly seaworthy boats with solid comfort and safety in a seaway. The differences between these boats is of much less significance than the quality of maintenance they have individually received over the years.

    The design has also been used (sometimes without royalty to Perry) by Hans Christians, MaoTo, Young Sun, Union Polaris 36.

    regards,
    H. Karten

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: pamarno@comcast.net
      To: baba-l@ballreich.net
      Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 11:23 AM
      Subject: Re: [Baba-L] Baba purchase

      Alan
      Just one note before I go down to wash the Baba.
      Did I mis speak about the lineage between the Baba and Tayana. Would Tashiba be the mother mold for my little Baba? I had a Tayana T-37 MK11, named GRACE, on my mind, as she is presently for sale by friends here in Bellingham.(no brokers-please)
      Regarding the opening ports: It was recommended, by the surveyor, that they be removed,a check made for the condition of cabin reinforcements and resealed. High moisture readings were detected on the sides of cabin both port and starbd.
      Pam Hooper

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Received on Sat Sep 9 06:35:15 2006